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I feel so bad, but you know, we've taken
I
feel
so
bad
but
you
know
we've
taken
a long time uh taping tonight and you
a
long
time
uh
taping
tonight
and
you
were uh nice enough to come up here uh
were
uh
nice
enough
to
come
up
here
uh
with your family and your small child
with
your
family
and
your
small
child
and you are now apparently living in our
and
you
are
now
apparently
living
in
our
green room.
green
room
>> I'm I'm but thank you for being here.
>>
I'm
I'm
but
thank
you
for
being
here
>> Oh, thank G. I wanted to talk to you
>>
Oh
thank
G
I
wanted
to
talk
to
you
because uh we are in a moment where
because
uh
we
are
in
a
moment
where
consistent courage seems uh in short
consistent
courage
seems
uh
in
short
supply. Uh, you are a civil rights
supply
Uh
you
are
a
civil
rights
attorney who has been cancelled by both
attorney
who
has
been
cancelled
by
both
the right and the left, which means you
the
right
and
the
left
which
means
you
must be doing something right.
must
be
doing
something
right
Uh,
Uh
what in your mind is the civil rights
what
in
your
mind
is
the
civil
rights
moment we're in right now and how it
moment
we're
in
right
now
and
how
it
compares to some of the work that you're
compares
to
some
of
the
work
that
you're
previously doing and and is this of a
previously
doing
and
and
is
this
of
a
continuum or or an acceleration in your
continuum
or
or
an
acceleration
in
your
mind?
mind
>> It might be an acceleration. Uh, so I've
>>
It
might
be
an
acceleration
Uh
so
I've
done a lot of free speech work
done
a
lot
of
free
speech
work
specifically and I actually sued the
specifically
and
I
actually
sued
the
Biden administration. That was where I
Biden
administration
That
was
where
I
got my start on free speech, right? Um,
got
my
start
on
free
speech
right
Um
but I was
but
I
was
>> Is that how they talk about that in law
>>
Is
that
how
they
talk
about
that
in
law
terms? Like I got my break
terms
Like
I
got
my
break
>> on a Biden censorship
>>
on
a
Biden
censorship
>> sort of.
>>
sort
of
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>>
Yeah
Yeah
>> Uh, I will say I think Trump is worse on
>>
Uh
I
will
say
I
think
Trump
is
worse
on
censorship and civil liberties
censorship
and
civil
liberties
generally.
generally
>> Right. But that is not it's an that's an
>>
Right
But
that
is
not
it's
an
that's
an
interesting to hear because on the right
interesting
to
hear
because
on
the
right
censorship and civil liberties was such
censorship
and
civil
liberties
was
such
a rallying point
a
rallying
point
and he so clearly isn't. But they've
and
he
so
clearly
isn't
But
they've
they've flipped that.
they've
flipped
that
>> Well, I don't think a lot of them were
>>
Well
I
don't
think
a
lot
of
them
were
that principled to begin with. Uh but I
that
principled
to
begin
with
Uh
but
I
worked with a lot of people who you uh
worked
with
a
lot
of
people
who
you
uh
are quite MAGA I guess um on lawsuits
are
quite
MAGA
I
guess
um
on
lawsuits
including the current solicitor general
including
the
current
solicitor
general
of the United States um and various
of
the
United
States
um
and
various
other people who are relatively high up
other
people
who
are
relatively
high
up
in the administration and they've taken
in
the
administration
and
they've
taken
a totally different tack uh this time
a
totally
different
tack
uh
this
time
around. So they're on the censorship
around
So
they're
on
the
censorship
side.
side
>> How are they dealing with you? So you
>>
How
are
they
dealing
with
you
So
you
were representing them in censorship
were
representing
them
in
censorship
cases during the Biden administration.
cases
during
the
Biden
administration
What specifically were those
What
specifically
were
those
surrounding? The main case I worked on
surrounding
The
main
case
I
worked
on
that went to the Supreme Court had to do
that
went
to
the
Supreme
Court
had
to
do
with uh the government involvement in
with
uh
the
government
involvement
in
social media censorship, the Biden
social
media
censorship
the
Biden
administration mainly uh especially co
administration
mainly
uh
especially
co
stuff. So I worked with a lot of these
stuff
So
I
worked
with
a
lot
of
these
people. Um I represented a couple of
people
Um
I
represented
a
couple
of
them uh
them
uh
>> who had been had had their accounts
>>
who
had
been
had
had
their
accounts
removed and other things that had
removed
and
other
things
that
had
happened and that they felt that the
happened
and
that
they
felt
that
the
government had been responsible for
government
had
been
responsible
for
pressuring.
pressuring
>> That's right. Yeah.
>>
That's
right
Yeah
>> Right. And and were those what was the
>>
Right
And
and
were
those
what
was
the
the outcome? Uh well, we lost at the
the
outcome
Uh
well
we
lost
at
the
Supreme Court actually and are as I
Supreme
Court
actually
and
are
as
I
warned a lot of liberals who were
warned
a
lot
of
liberals
who
were
celebrating that decision, it would be
celebrating
that
decision
it
would
be
cited against us and it is being cited
cited
against
us
and
it
is
being
cited
now in fact in many cases where we're
now
in
fact
in
many
cases
where
we're
suing the people are suing the Trump
suing
the
people
are
suing
the
Trump
administration.
administration
>> When when did you get the sense that
>>
When
when
did
you
get
the
sense
that
this was going to flip when they came
this
was
going
to
flip
when
they
came
into power or is it always that way that
into
power
or
is
it
always
that
way
that
whoever's in power is more is going to
whoever's
in
power
is
more
is
going
to
be more coercive? I wanted to believe a
be
more
coercive
I
wanted
to
believe
a
little bit that the Trump administration
little
bit
that
the
Trump
administration
would hold true to its word because he
would
hold
true
to
its
word
because
he
specifically talked about our case and
specifically
talked
about
our
case
and
this kind of censorship. And one of his
this
kind
of
censorship
And
one
of
his
first executive orders was actually
first
executive
orders
was
actually
called ending federal censorship and
called
ending
federal
censorship
and
restoring free speech in America. So I
restoring
free
speech
in
America
So
I
thought maybe they would do something,
thought
maybe
they
would
do
something
but it became rapidly clear uh within a
but
it
became
rapidly
clear
uh
within
a
few weeks.
few
weeks
>> You you you believed that they might do
>>
You
you
you
believed
that
they
might
do
that. That's adorable.
that
That's
adorable
>> It is. I I thought for a second that he
>>
It
is
I
I
thought
for
a
second
that
he
might not be principled when one of his
might
not
be
principled
when
one
of
his
first moves was threatening to jail Mark
first
moves
was
threatening
to
jail
Mark
Zuckerberg. That's when I thought, "Oh,
Zuckerberg
That's
when
I
thought
Oh
that doesn't sound like a free speech
that
doesn't
sound
like
a
free
speech
thing." Now, specifically now, uh you
thing
Now
specifically
now
uh
you
just recently sort of uh got a lot of
just
recently
sort
of
uh
got
a
lot
of
viral attention from, uh in this case in
viral
attention
from
uh
in
this
case
in
in Minneapolis,
in
Minneapolis
uh you were writing on on Twitter about
uh
you
were
writing
on
on
Twitter
about
sort of uh what you thought were the
sort
of
uh
what
you
thought
were
the
overreaches of the government in this uh
overreaches
of
the
government
in
this
uh
ICE raid and and what happened to this
ICE
raid
and
and
what
happened
to
this
uh Renee, the terrible incident. JD
uh
Renee
the
terrible
incident
JD
Vance saw what you wrote and started
Vance
saw
what
you
wrote
and
started
going at you.
going
at
you
Feel good?
Feel
good
>> Actually, it kind of did.
>>
Actually
it
kind
of
did
>> Did it really?
>>
Did
it
really
>> Yeah.
>>
Yeah
>> It's not It's not nerve-wracking. I
>>
It's
not
It's
not
nerve-wracking
I
would be very
would
be
very
>> No, actually I I wasn't that. I looked
>>
No
actually
I
I
wasn't
that
I
looked
at it and I was like, "Oh, JD Vance
at
it
and
I
was
like
Oh
JD
Vance
quote tweeted me and he seems to be
quote
tweeted
me
and
he
seems
to
be
insulting me."
insulting
me
>> He seems to be insulting everyone. Uh
>>
He
seems
to
be
insulting
everyone
Uh
what was the gist of the argument? Where
what
was
the
gist
of
the
argument
Where
did it where did it split?
did
it
where
did
it
split
>> So I would say two things. He thought
>>
So
I
would
say
two
things
He
thought
that the officers had a right to arrest
that
the
officers
had
a
right
to
arrest
her and to sort of start the whole
her
and
to
sort
of
start
the
whole
confrontation and also then to shoot
confrontation
and
also
then
to
shoot
her. And I disagree on both the those
her
And
I
disagree
on
both
the
those
things. I don't think the officers had a
things
I
don't
think
the
officers
had
a
right to arrest her and to stop her or
right
to
arrest
her
and
to
stop
her
or
to shoot her obviously.
to
shoot
her
obviously
And this is it's so fascinating because
And
this
is
it's
so
fascinating
because
now this feels like it's the moment that
now
this
feels
like
it's
the
moment
that
we're in feels very fraught because
we're
in
feels
very
fraught
because
there doesn't appear to be any as he
there
doesn't
appear
to
be
any
as
he
said in in that clip, the only thing
said
in
in
that
clip
the
only
thing
that will stop me is my own morality.
that
will
stop
me
is
my
own
morality
That's something Thanos would say in an
That's
something
Thanos
would
say
in
an
Avengers.
Avengers
>> Like this is why we have due process and
>>
Like
this
is
why
we
have
due
process
and
and and those things. So,
and
and
those
things
So
what was it in your training that made
what
was
it
in
your
training
that
made
you think they don't? Because my my
you
think
they
don't
Because
my
my
understanding is the cops have a right
understanding
is
the
cops
have
a
right
to arrest you if they think you're
to
arrest
you
if
they
think
you're
obstructing. Is that not the What are
obstructing
Is
that
not
the
What
are
people's rights in that situation?
people's
rights
in
that
situation
>> They're not cops. I mean, ICE officers
>>
They're
not
cops
I
mean
ICE
officers
are not they're ICE officers are federal
are
not
they're
ICE
officers
are
federal
Immigration and Customs Enforcement
Immigration
and
Customs
Enforcement
officers. So, they don't actually have
officers
So
they
don't
actually
have
the right to do uh traffic stops and
the
right
to
do
uh
traffic
stops
and
that kind of thing.
that
kind
of
thing
>> So, they they could not pull you over
>>
So
they
they
could
not
pull
you
over
and say, "Do you know how illegal you
and
say
Do
you
know
how
illegal
you
are?" Like they can't like they they're
are
Like
they
can't
like
they
they're
not allowed to without probable cause.
not
allowed
to
without
probable
cause
>> No. And if they had probable cause to
>>
No
And
if
they
had
probable
cause
to
believe you had someone illegal in your
believe
you
had
someone
illegal
in
your
car or you were an illegal alien, I
car
or
you
were
an
illegal
alien
I
suppose maybe they could pull you over,
suppose
maybe
they
could
pull
you
over
but not absent circumstances like that.
but
not
absent
circumstances
like
that
>> So in this circumstance, but if she's
>>
So
in
this
circumstance
but
if
she's
obstructing them, does that then give
obstructing
them
does
that
then
give
them the right? Because my understanding
them
the
right
Because
my
understanding
is they do have a right to arrest people
is
they
do
have
a
right
to
arrest
people
if they are obstructing them. I expect
if
they
are
obstructing
them
I
expect
if this case goes to trial that will be
if
this
case
goes
to
trial
that
will
be
a litigated issue because the
a
litigated
issue
because
the
obstruction has to be pretty serious and
obstruction
has
to
be
pretty
serious
and
it has to be of their enforcing the
it
has
to
be
of
their
enforcing
the
immigration law. So just blocking
immigration
law
So
just
blocking
traffic I would think probably wouldn't
traffic
I
would
think
probably
wouldn't
rise to that level. But I'm sure again
rise
to
that
level
But
I'm
sure
again
if it goes to trial uh that will be an
if
it
goes
to
trial
uh
that
will
be
an
issue that comes up. And then there was
issue
that
comes
up
And
then
there
was
the second part of it which I think is
the
second
part
of
it
which
I
think
is
the one that I think I think what threw
the
one
that
I
think
I
think
what
threw
me off the most was the dogmatic
me
off
the
most
was
the
dogmatic
certainty of the administration.
certainty
of
the
administration
Without any factf finding they just went
Without
any
factf
finding
they
just
went
this is a domestic terrorist. This
this
is
a
domestic
terrorist
This
person's life was in jeopardy. He uh had
person's
life
was
in
jeopardy
He
uh
had
to was well within his rights uh to kill
to
was
well
within
his
rights
uh
to
kill
her. I am look I come at this this is
her
I
am
look
I
come
at
this
this
is
probably about like I'm very close to a
probably
about
like
I'm
very
close
to
a
lot of like cops and bers and those guys
lot
of
like
cops
and
bers
and
those
guys
and and so I do I am very sympathetic to
and
and
so
I
do
I
am
very
sympathetic
to
what they go through and to what we as a
what
they
go
through
and
to
what
we
as
a
society ask them to do and the danger
society
ask
them
to
do
and
the
danger
that they put themselves into.
that
they
put
themselves
into
But even they looked at this situation
But
even
they
looked
at
this
situation
and went, "That might be the worst
and
went
That
might
be
the
worst
police work I've ever seen." First of
police
work
I've
ever
seen
First
of
all, you never put yourself in front of
all
you
never
put
yourself
in
front
of
a vehicle or behind a vehicle. Those two
a
vehicle
or
behind
a
vehicle
Those
two
shots, shots two and three were from the
shots
shots
two
and
three
were
from
the
side of the vehicle. There's no way to
side
of
the
vehicle
There's
no
way
to
justify that once you're already uh past
justify
that
once
you're
already
uh
past
there. Is like I'm trying to wrap my
there
Is
like
I'm
trying
to
wrap
my
head around are we litigating civil
head
around
are
we
litigating
civil
rights or are we litigating competence?
rights
or
are
we
litigating
competence
I think what was being litigated was
I
think
what
was
being
litigated
was
whether or not people liked ICE being
whether
or
not
people
liked
ICE
being
there in the first place and the
there
in
the
first
place
and
the
administration, you know, felt as though
administration
you
know
felt
as
though
what they feel as though what they're
what
they
feel
as
though
what
they're
trying to do is being impeded by these
trying
to
do
is
being
impeded
by
these
crazy left-wing activists, as they would
crazy
left-wing
activists
as
they
would
put it. And so their perspective or
put
it
And
so
their
perspective
or
their take on the whole thing started
their
take
on
the
whole
thing
started
with that. And uh I think they dug
with
that
And
uh
I
think
they
dug
themselves into a bit of a hole because
themselves
into
a
bit
of
a
hole
because
they within minutes or hours they were
they
within
minutes
or
hours
they
were
saying she was a domestic terrorist. She
saying
she
was
a
domestic
terrorist
She
had purposely tried to ram the officer
had
purposely
tried
to
ram
the
officer
over. There's no way you can look at
over
There's
no
way
you
can
look
at
that video and think she purposely did
that
video
and
think
she
purposely
did
it. I think one can maybe argue about
it
I
think
one
can
maybe
argue
about
whether there was some, you know, a
whether
there
was
some
you
know
a
justification defense, a self-defense
justification
defense
a
self-defense
theory could work at trial, right? But
theory
could
work
at
trial
right
But
to say she purposely did and then they
to
say
she
purposely
did
and
then
they
didn't know what to do because they had
didn't
know
what
to
do
because
they
had
already, you know, started going around
already
you
know
started
going
around
saying this
saying
this
>> and so in in their minds, so in you you
>>
and
so
in
in
their
minds
so
in
you
you
believe this is purely like a double
believe
this
is
purely
like
a
double
down of a u you know, a theory of the
down
of
a
u
you
know
a
theory
of
the
case that that they developed. Let me
case
that
that
they
developed
Let
me
ask you, you know, it it it brings to
ask
you
you
know
it
it
it
brings
to
mind Tom Hman said something
mind
Tom
Hman
said
something
interesting. He said, "We've got to tone
interesting
He
said
We've
got
to
tone
down the rhetoric against ICE officers."
down
the
rhetoric
against
ICE
officers
But in my mind, there is also something
But
in
my
mind
there
is
also
something
a responsibility on on their end.
a
responsibility
on
on
their
end
They've been provocative and
They've
been
provocative
and
confrontational as well. In America,
confrontational
as
well
In
America
have you ever seen an immigration
have
you
ever
seen
an
immigration
enforcement regime like this?
enforcement
regime
like
this
>> No. And I think
>>
No
And
I
think
>> it is unusual. Yes.
>>
it
is
unusual
Yes
>> Yes.
>>
Yes
>> Okay.
>>
Okay
>> Yeah. And I think we saw someone today.
>>
Yeah
And
I
think
we
saw
someone
today
There was a 17-year-old kid who actually
There
was
a
17-year-old
kid
who
actually
turned out to be a US citizen taken out
turned
out
to
be
a
US
citizen
taken
out
of a Target and beaten up and then
of
a
Target
and
beaten
up
and
then
>> and left like 10 minutes away from the
>>
and
left
like
10
minutes
away
from
the
Target to get home. Yeah.
Target
to
get
home
Yeah
>> Here's So my understanding of of
>>
Here's
So
my
understanding
of
of
immigration enforcement had always been
immigration
enforcement
had
always
been
like, and I think most Americans would
like
and
I
think
most
Americans
would
agree with this. If there are rapists
agree
with
this
If
there
are
rapists
and murderers and people who have
and
murderers
and
people
who
have
committed crimes and they're in this
committed
crimes
and
they're
in
this
country legal, get them out. But it's
country
legal
get
them
out
But
it's
generally a fishing expedition.
generally
a
fishing
expedition
>> I have a name. I have a person. I'm
>>
I
have
a
name
I
have
a
person
I'm
going to do that. I don't think we're
going
to
do
that
I
don't
think
we're
comfortable with I'm gonna throw a net
comfortable
with
I'm
gonna
throw
a
net
on this area that I generally think has
on
this
area
that
I
generally
think
has
uh people that look like they might be
uh
people
that
look
like
they
might
be
in this country illegally and I'm just
in
this
country
illegally
and
I'm
just
going to do a group and if I end up with
going
to
do
a
group
and
if
I
end
up
with
citizens and non-citizens and and I
citizens
and
non-citizens
and
and
I
don't care.
don't
care
>> Yeah.
>>
Yeah
>> Is that what has provoked some of this?
>>
Is
that
what
has
provoked
some
of
this
>> Um
>>
Um
yes. take your time.
yes
take
your
time
>> Yes. I mean, it's the, you know, they're
>>
Yes
I
mean
it's
the
you
know
they're
trying to they're trying to have a mass
trying
to
they're
trying
to
have
a
mass
deportation policy and so they're just t
deportation
policy
and
so
they're
just
t
taking a lot of people in who shouldn't
taking
a
lot
of
people
in
who
shouldn't
be um and what's happening is people's
be
um
and
what's
happening
is
people's
civil liberties are being violated
civil
liberties
are
being
violated
because you're not supposed to just, you
because
you're
not
supposed
to
just
you
know, arrest people or put them in ICE
know
arrest
people
or
put
them
in
ICE
detention or whatever um without some
detention
or
whatever
um
without
some
kind of basis. So, how and and it does
kind
of
basis
So
how
and
and
it
does
seem very punitive because I read a
seem
very
punitive
because
I
read
a
statistic that 70% of these operations
statistic
that
70
of
these
operations
are in blue states where they're doing
are
in
blue
states
where
they're
doing
like in red states they're not doing
like
in
red
states
they're
not
doing
these sweeps where they go in and just
these
sweeps
where
they
go
in
and
just
uh grab a bunch of people in a parking
uh
grab
a
bunch
of
people
in
a
parking
lot or shut down a business. They're
lot
or
shut
down
a
business
They're
doing it in blue cities and blue states.
doing
it
in
blue
cities
and
blue
states
>> Yeah, that's definitely what's
>>
Yeah
that's
definitely
what's
happening. And I think they're probably
happening
And
I
think
they're
probably
targeting sanctuary cities, too,
targeting
sanctuary
cities
too
so-called sanctuary cities because they
so-called
sanctuary
cities
because
they
think they're not complying. Now, let's
think
they're
not
complying
Now
let's
So, I hear that a lot. What is a
So
I
hear
that
a
lot
What
is
a
sanctuary city?
sanctuary
city
>> Does that mean you don't have to comply
>>
Does
that
mean
you
don't
have
to
comply
with ICE for even civil deportation or
with
ICE
for
even
civil
deportation
or
just criminal deport? What does it mean
just
criminal
deport
What
does
it
mean
to be a sanctuary?
to
be
a
sanctuary
>> I don't think there's just one
>>
I
don't
think
there's
just
one
definition, but generally speaking,
definition
but
generally
speaking
they're not helping immigration
they're
not
helping
immigration
authorities and to greater or lesser
authorities
and
to
greater
or
lesser
extents, they are uh not looking at
extents
they
are
uh
not
looking
at
people's immigration status and
people's
immigration
status
and
dispensing like social services and that
dispensing
like
social
services
and
that
kind of thing. But what is so my
kind
of
thing
But
what
is
so
my
understanding in the law is that if you
understanding
in
the
law
is
that
if
you
are a criminal and you have a warrant or
are
a
criminal
and
you
have
a
warrant
or
a detainment, they have to you have to
a
detainment
they
have
to
you
have
to
cooperate still even if you're a
cooperate
still
even
if
you're
a
sanctuary city.
sanctuary
city
>> Yeah. Of course. Yeah.
>>
Yeah
Of
course
Yeah
>> Right.
>>
Right
>> Yeah.
>>
Yeah
>> So the story we're being told about
>>
So
the
story
we're
being
told
about
sanctuary cities seems not necessarily
sanctuary
cities
seems
not
necessarily
the case.
the
case
>> Probably it's exaggerated. Yeah. But
>>
Probably
it's
exaggerated
Yeah
But
they are not necessarily complying and
they
are
not
necessarily
complying
and
they are not turning people. So normally
they
are
not
turning
people
So
normally
if you know someone will be flagged in
if
you
know
someone
will
be
flagged
in
the course of things that if they're
the
course
of
things
that
if
they're
getting benefits or something and you
getting
benefits
or
something
and
you
know you're asking for some kind of
know
you're
asking
for
some
kind
of
identification there so they're not
identification
there
so
they're
not
turning those people in or
turning
those
people
in
or
>> right whether those people have a a
>>
right
whether
those
people
have
a
a
criminal record or not.
criminal
record
or
not
>> Well they would have to I mean if they
>>
Well
they
would
have
to
I
mean
if
they
knew they had a criminal record that
knew
they
had
a
criminal
record
that
made them deportable presumably they
made
them
deportable
presumably
they
Yes.
Yes
>> Okay. Yeah. So what is what can people
>>
Okay
Yeah
So
what
is
what
can
people
do if they view is this purely a
do
if
they
view
is
this
purely
a
question of uh you know it seems they're
question
of
uh
you
know
it
seems
they're
primed for a fight and an escalation of
primed
for
a
fight
and
an
escalation
of
protest is going to be met with an
protest
is
going
to
be
met
with
an
escalation of violent tactics and the
escalation
of
violent
tactics
and
the
fear is that it's a purposeful
fear
is
that
it's
a
purposeful
provocation into
provocation
into
what they would consider the
what
they
would
consider
the
insurrection act. That's sort of like
insurrection
act
That's
sort
of
like
the online version of it. In your mind,
the
online
version
of
it
In
your
mind
what's the proper way to go about any of
what's
the
proper
way
to
go
about
any
of
this for citizens that are concerned?
this
for
citizens
that
are
concerned
>> Well, that's a very complicated
>>
Well
that's
a
very
complicated
question.
question
>> Well, that's why I brought that's why I
>>
Well
that's
why
I
brought
that's
why
I
brought an attorney.
brought
an
attorney
>> I mean,
>>
I
mean
I don't know that anyone can resolve
I
don't
know
that
anyone
can
resolve
this. I think one of the problems is
this
I
think
one
of
the
problems
is
both sides have become so extreme in
both
sides
have
become
so
extreme
in
their rhetoric and their beliefs. I mean
their
rhetoric
and
their
beliefs
I
mean
as you pointed out earlier most of us
as
you
pointed
out
earlier
most
of
us
would agree that people who committed
would
agree
that
people
who
committed
heinous acts and are not uh in the
heinous
acts
and
are
not
uh
in
the
country legally should be removed but I
country
legally
should
be
removed
but
I
think there's there's been a dogmatism
think
there's
there's
been
a
dogmatism
on both sides and I think we need to
on
both
sides
and
I
think
we
need
to
meet in the middle as uh you know should
meet
in
the
middle
as
uh
you
know
should
be the case with actually many issues. I
be
the
case
with
actually
many
issues
I
mean, the only thing about that is only
mean
the
only
thing
about
that
is
only
one side really though has the guns
one
side
really
though
has
the
guns
>> and the authority because it's, you
>>
and
the
authority
because
it's
you
know, when I look at
know
when
I
look
at
>> when I look at that video,
>>
when
I
look
at
that
video
>> I don't see both sides in in a dogmatic
>>
I
don't
see
both
sides
in
in
a
dogmatic
stance. I see a woman, maybe naive,
stance
I
see
a
woman
maybe
naive
sitting in a car thinking
sitting
in
a
car
thinking
she has to do something and she's going
she
has
to
do
something
and
she's
going
to block something and a wildly extreme
to
block
something
and
a
wildly
extreme
overreaction
overreaction
to that small act of defiance
to
that
small
act
of
defiance
and then and and then like I I just when
and
then
and
and
then
like
I
I
just
when
they say like she was radicalized, I
they
say
like
she
was
radicalized
I
just think well there are masked gunmen
just
think
well
there
are
masked
gunmen
in her neighborhood
in
her
neighborhood
who she's read about taking 17-year-old
who
she's
read
about
taking
17-year-old
kids and pulling them off the street.
kids
and
pulling
them
off
the
street
That that wasn't
That
that
wasn't
it didn't feel like I'm used to I know
it
didn't
feel
like
I'm
used
to
I
know
what a terrorist attack looks like.
what
a
terrorist
attack
looks
like
>> Yeah. Um that was not a terrorist
>>
Yeah
Um
that
was
not
a
terrorist
attack, right?
attack
right
>> Definitely. Um, but I think one thing
>>
Definitely
Um
but
I
think
one
thing
that's that many people on the left are
that's
that
many
people
on
the
left
are
missing is that people on the right, uh,
missing
is
that
people
on
the
right
uh
the the rhetoric that the administration
the
the
rhetoric
that
the
administration
is using when it comes to immigrants is
is
using
when
it
comes
to
immigrants
is
appealing to them because they think
appealing
to
them
because
they
think
they truly believe that their lives are
they
truly
believe
that
their
lives
are
worse and part of the reason is illegal
worse
and
part
of
the
reason
is
illegal
immigrants. I'm not going to weigh in on
immigrants
I'm
not
going
to
weigh
in
on
whether or not that's true. That's not
whether
or
not
that's
true
That's
not
my right. Um, but I I do believe that
my
right
Um
but
I
I
do
believe
that
there's uh an an ignoring of the
there's
uh
an
an
ignoring
of
the
problems that workingclass Americans
problems
that
workingclass
Americans
face is part of the issue and um that
face
is
part
of
the
issue
and
um
that
the Democratic establishment has been
the
Democratic
establishment
has
been
part of that and that's why there's so
part
of
that
and
that's
why
there's
so
much hate. So that's why it it locks in
much
hate
So
that's
why
it
it
locks
in
and then even though those are the same
and
then
even
though
those
are
the
same
people who a few years back would say I
people
who
a
few
years
back
would
say
I
got my guns to keep you know I remember
got
my
guns
to
keep
you
know
I
remember
you know during COVID like they made
you
know
during
COVID
like
they
made
people in Michigan mask for two weeks
people
in
Michigan
mask
for
two
weeks
and like the militia stormed the capital
and
like
the
militia
stormed
the
capital
and was like we CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE.
and
was
like
we
CAN'T
TAKE
IT
ANYMORE
>> YEAH.
>>
YEAH
>> These are the same people saying hey man
>>
These
are
the
same
people
saying
hey
man
it's just guys with guns and masks.
it's
just
guys
with
guns
and
masks
>> Yeah.
>>
Yeah
>> Why don't you comply? They meant it
>>
Why
don't
you
comply
They
meant
it
applied to them. You know, they have the
applied
to
them
You
know
they
have
the
right to fight for their civil
right
to
fight
for
their
civil
liberties, but other people don't.
liberties
but
other
people
don't
That's
That's
>> But isn't that the situation? I mean,
>>
But
isn't
that
the
situation
I
mean
have you seen any of these Homeland
have
you
seen
any
of
these
Homeland
Security like website things where
Security
like
website
things
where
they're like, "Your heritage, your
they're
like
Your
heritage
your
homeland."
homeland
>> Yeah.
>>
Yeah
>> Take it. And I'm like, "What the
>>
Take
it
And
I'm
like
What
the
>> Yeah. Did there was a new one from the
>>
Yeah
Did
there
was
a
new
one
from
the
Department of Labor today that was like
Department
of
Labor
today
that
was
like
a Nazi slogan.
a
Nazi
slogan
>> Was it really? Yeah. So, it's like one
>>
Was
it
really
Yeah
So
it's
like
one
one people, one I forgot the exact
one
people
one
I
forgot
the
exact
thing,
thing
>> right?
>>
right
Is is some of this based on because
Is
is
some
of
this
based
on
because
Donald Trump's methodology is so
Donald
Trump's
methodology
is
so
coercive and confrontational that he
coercive
and
confrontational
that
he
might be able to get the result he looks
might
be
able
to
get
the
result
he
looks
like to me is, you know, how sometimes
like
to
me
is
you
know
how
sometimes
at the end of the month they say like
at
the
end
of
the
month
they
say
like
cops are on a quota, so watch out.
cops
are
on
a
quota
so
watch
out
There's going to be some speed traps.
There's
going
to
be
some
speed
traps
>> Yeah. It feels like this government
>>
Yeah
It
feels
like
this
government
said, "We got a quota and it's 3,000 or
said
We
got
a
quota
and
it's
3000
or
4,000 people and you're not hitting it,
4000
people
and
you're
not
hitting
it
so hit it."
so
hit
it
>> Yeah.
>>
Yeah
>> It's like they've incentivized them to
>>
It's
like
they've
incentivized
them
to
be as as
be
as
as
non due process and unargeted as
non
due
process
and
unargeted
as
possible. Just get as many people as you
possible
Just
get
as
many
people
as
you
can.
can
>> Absolutely. Yeah. And that's part of
>>
Absolutely
Yeah
And
that's
part
of
what led to this. I mean, these officers
what
led
to
this
I
mean
these
officers
are acting like thugs. They're not
are
acting
like
thugs
They're
not
trained, you know, they're not acting
trained
you
know
they're
not
acting
like normal police officers should. as a
like
normal
police
officers
should
as
a
civil rights attorney. Is there So, who
civil
rights
attorney
Is
there
So
who
files the lawsuit? I mean, I'm assuming
files
the
lawsuit
I
mean
I'm
assuming
there'll be due process for that,
there'll
be
due
process
for
that
although that they've already and he'll
although
that
they've
already
and
he'll
pardon it, but
pardon
it
but
>> uh but like how do you stop it?
>>
uh
but
like
how
do
you
stop
it
>> Well, the courts have been somewhat good
>>
Well
the
courts
have
been
somewhat
good
um when it came to and you know, last
um
when
it
came
to
and
you
know
last
year when it came to some of the
year
when
it
came
to
some
of
the
immigration stuff where they were
immigration
stuff
where
they
were
sending people to uh other countries,
sending
people
to
uh
other
countries
but um the problem with the courts is
but
um
the
problem
with
the
courts
is
that they move slowly and so the
that
they
move
slowly
and
so
the
administration can do quite a bit before
administration
can
do
quite
a
bit
before
anybody gets their day in court. And
anybody
gets
their
day
in
court
And
what they do actually is they violate
what
they
do
actually
is
they
violate
people's rights and then by the time um
people's
rights
and
then
by
the
time
um
you get the case to court they've moved
you
get
the
case
to
court
they've
moved
on to something else.
on
to
something
else
>> Right.
>>
Right
>> And so and so that so do do you see this
>>
And
so
and
so
that
so
do
do
you
see
this
in your mind escalating or or getting
in
your
mind
escalating
or
or
getting
slightly uh you know do you see this now
slightly
uh
you
know
do
you
see
this
now
as a perpetual escalation.
as
a
perpetual
escalation
>> I I think it's a perpetual escalation.
>>
I
I
think
it's
a
perpetual
escalation
Yeah. And then the way the
Yeah
And
then
the
way
the
administration doubled down on what
administration
doubled
down
on
what
happened here I think is a really bad
happened
here
I
think
is
a
really
bad
sign. If they had said you know what
sign
If
they
had
said
you
know
what
this was a horrible situation we're
this
was
a
horrible
situation
we're
going to investigate as they should have
going
to
investigate
as
they
should
have
done. Um we don't know what happened.
done
Um
we
don't
know
what
happened
that would be different. But the fact
that
would
be
different
But
the
fact
that they immediately decided she was a
that
they
immediately
decided
she
was
a
domestic terrorist and they're
domestic
terrorist
and
they're
continuing with that is I would say not
continuing
with
that
is
I
would
say
not
a good sign at all.
a
good
sign
at
all
>> Yeah, I was going to try and end on a
>>
Yeah
I
was
going
to
try
and
end
on
a
hopeful note.
hopeful
note
>> I'm the wrong guest for you then.
>>
I'm
the
wrong
guest
for
you
then
>> You got nothing.
>>
You
got
nothing
>> Do you think an election could help?
>>
Do
you
think
an
election
could
help
>> Uh
>>
Uh
>> do you think there'll be an election?
>>
do
you
think
there'll
be
an
election
>> Well, I'm not actually super hopeful
>>
Well
I'm
not
actually
super
hopeful
because whoever wins, uh we continue to
because
whoever
wins
uh
we
continue
to
see a denigration of our civil
see
a
denigration
of
our
civil
liberties. This administration is very
liberties
This
administration
is
very
blatant, but there the one that came
blatant
but
there
the
one
that
came
before was kind of bad, too. That's why
before
was
kind
of
bad
too
That's
why
I was suing them all the time.
I
was
suing
them
all
the
time
>> What I would give for subtly invading
>>
What
I
would
give
for
subtly
invading
people's rights. Uh, thank you for being
people's
rights
Uh
thank
you
for
being
here and thank you for uh keeping your
here
and
thank
you
for
uh
keeping
your
principles up and doing the best you can
principles
up
and
doing
the
best
you
can
to try and and and keep those and
to
try
and
and
and
keep
those
and
protect the people that you think are
protect
the
people
that
you
think
are
most vulnerable and need protecting it.
most
vulnerable
and
need
protecting
it
It really is something to be commended.
It
really
is
something
to
be
commended
>> Thank you.
>>
Thank
you
>> So, thank you for being here. Be sure to
>>
So
thank
you
for
being
here
Be
sure
to
check out if I got super Janine. unit.
check
out
if
I
got
super
Janine
unit
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